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Nov 17, 2012
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that was one of the solar panels that jimmy carter put on the white house in 1979 and ronald reagan took down in 1985 because he wanted manlier forms of energy. it's not that we lack -- germ and china have better technology. >> that and put it in his private museum in china? i love that story. >> we have the technology. we have the entrepreneurs. we just don't have the political will to do anything with it because we've got the koch brothers and exxon and everybody else in the way. >> we also have a reflexive ideological resistance to government playing a big role. i actually talked to mitt romney's policy director a few weeks before the election. i asked him, you know, what do you think government can do to make coal cleaner, carbon capturing sequestration by doesn't exist on a usable scale. he said i don't think government should play a role at all. there you go. there's the barrier. >> government should play no role except tonight provide massive subsidies to the fossil fuel industry decade after decade. >> can the subsidy for cleaner coal. >> this is where the tax extenders issue whi
that was one of the solar panels that jimmy carter put on the white house in 1979 and ronald reagan took down in 1985 because he wanted manlier forms of energy. it's not that we lack -- germ and china have better technology. >> that and put it in his private museum in china? i love that story. >> we have the technology. we have the entrepreneurs. we just don't have the political will to do anything with it because we've got the koch brothers and exxon and everybody else in the way....
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Nov 13, 2012
11/12
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may talk about ronald reagan but they haven't really embraced ronald reagan. >> somehow i don't think he hit the nail on the head. but louisiana governor bobby jindal might be onto something. he says the republicans need to stop being the stupid party. wow, the stupid party. there is a war inside the gop and nobody knows how this will end. joining me now, steve kornacki and krystal ball, co-hosts of "the cycle" on msnbc. >> our guys, the upper echelon of the republican party, want to fashion themselves as members of the ruling class. we the country class are not in the ruling class. we're in a problem. >> steve, limbaugh is pointing to a big split in the party. where do you think this is going? is this a fight we're going to see rush and the establishment have? >> yeah. this is the problem for the republican party. that kind of a fight is probably good for rush limbaugh in terms of it gives him something to talk about, gives him status within the conservative movement. and it really allows him to rile up his audience, his base and say, i'm the voice of the pure conservative. it's this
may talk about ronald reagan but they haven't really embraced ronald reagan. >> somehow i don't think he hit the nail on the head. but louisiana governor bobby jindal might be onto something. he says the republicans need to stop being the stupid party. wow, the stupid party. there is a war inside the gop and nobody knows how this will end. joining me now, steve kornacki and krystal ball, co-hosts of "the cycle" on msnbc. >> our guys, the upper echelon of the republican...
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reagan did it but that was one of the new worst presidents in the last hundred years to win a second bill kristol talked about this area well i mean out of this are the whole monologue in the beginning though and it's based on a faulty argument that tax rates and revenue are the same thing i'm not making an argument to you tom that no one here should pay taxes and finance items for the collective good that's not what i'm saying what i'm telling you is republicans we fail to make an argument that there is a tax rate sweet spot they had where you would generate revenue and not stifle the economy at the same time i don't think we're there i think we're still a bit too high although i think i don't think we're there either i mean if you look at the three decade period when america had its highest sustained growth of g.d.p. and best sustained growth of the middle class it was the fifty's sixty's and seventy's when the top tax rate was ninety one percent i think that's the sweet spot right but look at the reagan rates of twenty percent when you get out we had growth rates of seven five and
reagan did it but that was one of the new worst presidents in the last hundred years to win a second bill kristol talked about this area well i mean out of this are the whole monologue in the beginning though and it's based on a faulty argument that tax rates and revenue are the same thing i'm not making an argument to you tom that no one here should pay taxes and finance items for the collective good that's not what i'm saying what i'm telling you is republicans we fail to make an argument...
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college like we used to have before ronald reagan all across the united states or in many places it is certainly california is out for people say yes what are you willing to pay taxes for people say yes you are and you're willing to say yes well the majority the vast majority so you think you should be able to exit for that and all of our money yes i think redeploy i think we're all in on this. really more when there are these then we should reserve you using force to take my money should be reserved for areas of mass consensus i'm telling you you don't have the sixty five percent of americans in the exit polling after the last election so they thought the taxes should go a good forty nine percent of americans don't like obamacare so you're telling me that fifty one percent of america should be able to buy force take forty nine percent of america's money because you've declared it a mandate well that's how it works though they've done that so i don't that's a you know that is that was reagan said the same thing he said ok by force we're going to take a trillion dollars from people's mo
college like we used to have before ronald reagan all across the united states or in many places it is certainly california is out for people say yes what are you willing to pay taxes for people say yes you are and you're willing to say yes well the majority the vast majority so you think you should be able to exit for that and all of our money yes i think redeploy i think we're all in on this. really more when there are these then we should reserve you using force to take my money should be...
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Nov 16, 2012
11/12
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it was interesting he quoted ronald reagan on the floor yesterday to point out social security has nothing to do with the deficit or balancing budgets, payroll tax that employers and employees pay into the trust fund that finances that and it should not even be discussed in these negotiations. but furthermore, this whole election, this whole national election was a referendum on the republicans' ideas expressed so well by mitt romney by the way yesterday afternoon when he talked about with such contempt for people who might need college loans, or health care, god forbid. and, you know, this election showed americans are completely opposed to the proposed reforms by the republicans on medicare and social security. they don't want entitlements changed or touched. and they want to see the top% pay some taxes. like they did in the clinton era. so if their elected representatives come in and within a week they're talking about changing entitlements and not raising taxes on the very rich, it's not just liberals who will be disappointed. this is whole country here that are behind what obama and t
it was interesting he quoted ronald reagan on the floor yesterday to point out social security has nothing to do with the deficit or balancing budgets, payroll tax that employers and employees pay into the trust fund that finances that and it should not even be discussed in these negotiations. but furthermore, this whole election, this whole national election was a referendum on the republicans' ideas expressed so well by mitt romney by the way yesterday afternoon when he talked about with such...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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in 1976 ronald reagan told stories about the so-called welfare queen in an effort to scare white voters. and the very same lee atwater made the willie horton ad a key part of george h.w. bush's 1988 bid for the white house. and in 2012 the same ugliness took center stage in the gop primary. >> we know president obama is the best food stamp president in american history. >> i don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money. i want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money. >> you're doing it because you care about america. paul and i have not promised you a bigger check from the government. >> as atwater said, the message is coded. but what he's getting at is crystal clear. joining me now is toure, host of "the cycle" here on msnbc, and the man who tracked down the atwater tape, james carter iv. he's an opposition researcher and the grandson of president jimmy carter. thank you both for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> james, first of all, tell us how you got your hands on this tape. >> well, i started looking for it a
in 1976 ronald reagan told stories about the so-called welfare queen in an effort to scare white voters. and the very same lee atwater made the willie horton ad a key part of george h.w. bush's 1988 bid for the white house. and in 2012 the same ugliness took center stage in the gop primary. >> we know president obama is the best food stamp president in american history. >> i don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money. i want to give them the...
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Nov 17, 2012
11/12
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it wasn't terribly long ago that ronald reagan won 49 states. that's a mandate. it's unthinkable that any candidate can win anywhere close to that. obama won a pretty impressive victory even without a serious third party candidate, he did not get 51% of the popular vote. he won 26 states to romney's 24 states. we'll see time after time very, very close elections. we need to rethink the negotiations of mandates and say this person won the presidency. they need to go forward with that agenda. >> what about the republicans? are they going to do a big rethink here? >> yes, and more than one. it was interesting that the republican governors happened to be meeting this week in las vegas when this news about the interesting comments that romney made to his donors that we just saw and the republican governors, bobby jindal of louisiana did not miss five seconds before they really denounced what romney was saying. the republicans have a lot of things to think about, not of which is their growing problem with hispanic voters. that is the big growing group in this country.
it wasn't terribly long ago that ronald reagan won 49 states. that's a mandate. it's unthinkable that any candidate can win anywhere close to that. obama won a pretty impressive victory even without a serious third party candidate, he did not get 51% of the popular vote. he won 26 states to romney's 24 states. we'll see time after time very, very close elections. we need to rethink the negotiations of mandates and say this person won the presidency. they need to go forward with that agenda....
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Nov 20, 2012
11/12
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that's something ronald reagan and jack kemp find of figured out how at least to sell a generation ago and this generation of republicans has yet to figure out. >> i guess i was one of the takers with the student loans. i'm one of the 47%. howard fineman, thank you. i think we all went to school on loans. have a nice thanksgiving. >>> coming up, so much has been made of the fact that president obama got only 39% of the white vote in this country. national problem for the president? not really when you realize in deep south mississippi he got about 10%. a lot of his problem is in the south. it's just the historic problem the democratic party, white or black candidates have this problem having a tough time. also the battle for hillary's job. it's getting hot. it's the first big decision president obama has to make since his re-election. it looks like it's between john kerry and u.n. ambassador susan rice. will the president go with the 2004 presidential candidate or his apparent favorite? and a report from gaza and the latest on the fighting there that i think could lead to a war with ir
that's something ronald reagan and jack kemp find of figured out how at least to sell a generation ago and this generation of republicans has yet to figure out. >> i guess i was one of the takers with the student loans. i'm one of the 47%. howard fineman, thank you. i think we all went to school on loans. have a nice thanksgiving. >>> coming up, so much has been made of the fact that president obama got only 39% of the white vote in this country. national problem for the...
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Nov 12, 2012
11/12
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ronald reagan tea party and the rest. the nation is changing, it is younger and less white. first thing the republicans ought to do is get rid of "o" in g.o.p., grand old party. they need an infusion of young and hispanic and black leaders. every time the republicans put one up, condoleezza rice or clarence thomas or whoever, nikki haley, they are being bashed as anti-women they have to keep trying. >> romney lost by two points. you spent decades at "new york times" which is most powerful news single entity. how do you see the political coverage of the "new york times"? >> i think there is no doubt most of reporters at the "new york times" lean democratic. there were reporters when george bush that were republican but the same reporters. i don't think you win because the "new york times" endorses you or doesn't endorse you. i think it's irrelevant. people aren't reading it as they used to. >> even journalistic study that president obama sailed in the primaries based on media affection. >> that is not going to help you overcome what he was up against. barack obama defied hist
ronald reagan tea party and the rest. the nation is changing, it is younger and less white. first thing the republicans ought to do is get rid of "o" in g.o.p., grand old party. they need an infusion of young and hispanic and black leaders. every time the republicans put one up, condoleezza rice or clarence thomas or whoever, nikki haley, they are being bashed as anti-women they have to keep trying. >> romney lost by two points. you spent decades at "new york times"...
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Nov 20, 2012
11/12
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see ronald reagan making the case not for legalization but for amnesty using that word. i think a majority of republicans are pro immigration that the have been afraid for the past six years about that lobby which has an incredible political machine and anybody that says anything constructive about immigration would be called the label primm st, and certainly some talk-show hosts. i think this election cycle has dramatically changed that. i can at least remember half a dozen talk shows had already said my position has evolved and now i am for immigration reform. but that is good because will give cover to a lot of republicans who have avoided this issue will want to deal with this issue to actually do it. so we have to reclaim the issue and we can do it because immigration reform is the conservative position. restriction is part of the nationalist protectionist paradigm and if we are the party of the family come if we are the party of the free market we should not in any way have a restriction as to position if we are for the family i don't see how -- i don't see why we
see ronald reagan making the case not for legalization but for amnesty using that word. i think a majority of republicans are pro immigration that the have been afraid for the past six years about that lobby which has an incredible political machine and anybody that says anything constructive about immigration would be called the label primm st, and certainly some talk-show hosts. i think this election cycle has dramatically changed that. i can at least remember half a dozen talk shows had...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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ronald reagan was the president. and david stockman, before he turned tail, was the budget director. but you know what? we had a ton of spending cuts. a ton of spending cuts. and i have the scars here on my back to show. >> i know. >> and people just go crazy. you've had the same experience. what i'm saying to you is this. before anybody talks about a dollar of new tax revenue, why haven't we exhausted every dollar of spending cuts? that's what -- before we even get to the revenue, why don't we go through spending? and i'm not -- yes, entitlement reform, but also there's a lot of inefficient and duplicative and whole agencies we don't need. before you talk about revenues, one nickel of rev few, why don't we have the conversation on spending? >> i don't know, larry. it's a tremendous frustration. we've seen this for a long, long time, both parties. we really do need a thorough scrub. and they've done it before. they come up with lots of program cancellations. and they never get through congress. we certainly need enti
ronald reagan was the president. and david stockman, before he turned tail, was the budget director. but you know what? we had a ton of spending cuts. a ton of spending cuts. and i have the scars here on my back to show. >> i know. >> and people just go crazy. you've had the same experience. what i'm saying to you is this. before anybody talks about a dollar of new tax revenue, why haven't we exhausted every dollar of spending cuts? that's what -- before we even get to the revenue,...
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Nov 20, 2012
11/12
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and what ronald reagan thinks or what oliver north or i think or anybody else thinks makes not a thing if the american people say enough. there comes a point that the views of the american people have to be heard. >> warren rudman saw action and was awarded a bronze star for combat in korea. he once told former defense secretary casper weinberger from his own party his talk of a, quote, limited nuclear war was assanine. he did not seek re-election saying i can see the republican party was being taken over by a movement conservatives and self-commissioned christian soldier whose social agenda i found repugnant. he was 82 years old. he died of lymphoma. band playin] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it... in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. great taste. mmm... [ male announcer ] sounds good. it's amazing what soup can do. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi
and what ronald reagan thinks or what oliver north or i think or anybody else thinks makes not a thing if the american people say enough. there comes a point that the views of the american people have to be heard. >> warren rudman saw action and was awarded a bronze star for combat in korea. he once told former defense secretary casper weinberger from his own party his talk of a, quote, limited nuclear war was assanine. he did not seek re-election saying i can see the republican party was...
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reagan really took seriously and he triple the national debt of course that is that everybody did and george bush did the same exact thing they do they play this game with the american people but this time in this election the american people actually won what the republicans tried to do they tried to crush them they tried to destroy them they tried to stop them. going to the polls they try to put voter suppression laws in place all across the country and we saw turnout even higher than in two thousand and eight because the people the american people are smarter than the republican party thinks they are and will mitt romney make statements about you know how he thinks about immigrants or how he feels about african-americans or how he feels about young women or how he feels about young people if you think that's going to get his party back in power it's the sadly mistaken the republican party has turned into a party that can only control the united states house of representatives if they don't get their act right and they can only do that because a jury matter exactly and you know whic
reagan really took seriously and he triple the national debt of course that is that everybody did and george bush did the same exact thing they do they play this game with the american people but this time in this election the american people actually won what the republicans tried to do they tried to crush them they tried to destroy them they tried to stop them. going to the polls they try to put voter suppression laws in place all across the country and we saw turnout even higher than in two...
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Nov 18, 2012
11/12
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>> ronald reagan said, i will not hold your youth and inexperience against you. >> and later, why unlikely bedfellows are teaming up to make sure the littlest americans don't get neglected in the fiscal cliff standoff. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ i'd do anything for you, dear ♪ ♪ anything, yes, i'd do anything ♪ ♪ anything for you ♪ and you learned something along the way. this is the age of knowing what you're made of. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. see if america's most prescrib
>> ronald reagan said, i will not hold your youth and inexperience against you. >> and later, why unlikely bedfellows are teaming up to make sure the littlest americans don't get neglected in the fiscal cliff standoff. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ i'd do anything for you, dear ♪ ♪ anything, yes, i'd do anything ♪ ♪ anything for you ♪ and you learned something along the way. this is the age of knowing what you're made of. so, why let erectile...
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Nov 20, 2012
11/12
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CSPAN
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how can the republican party become a big party again, how it was under ronald reagan? i feel the republican party is slowly becoming a smaller and smaller party and throwing people out like me or other republicans saying you're not a real republican or things like that. and the democratic party is going the opposite direction. they were the small party in the 1980's and late 1970's. now they are the inclusive party bringing in latinos -- and blacks beforehand, and all these other groups. how can the republican party switch and start to be more inclusive? >> why don't we take the first question first? anybody want to address that? >> the visa, the process is broken. i would like to give an example. the entire agriculture community, growing fruits and vegetables to anything agricultural, thousands and thousands of pieces are applied for. less than 2% of their entire work force is approved for visa. there's a 50% foreign work force in major-league baseball and 100% of their visas are improved. who does more for the economy? that shows how broken our system is there are so
how can the republican party become a big party again, how it was under ronald reagan? i feel the republican party is slowly becoming a smaller and smaller party and throwing people out like me or other republicans saying you're not a real republican or things like that. and the democratic party is going the opposite direction. they were the small party in the 1980's and late 1970's. now they are the inclusive party bringing in latinos -- and blacks beforehand, and all these other groups. how...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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reagan was with the blowing up of the u.s. marines in beirut. >> this administration continues to put out things that are just not quite true. >> smear, character assassination, judgment before all the facts are in. >> we're getting that video in. house and senate committees will both hearings tomorrow as we reported a few minutes ago. former cia director david petraeus is expected to testify. you see some of the tone and tenor of what will perhaps happen behind closed doors tomorrow. i'm tamron hall. you can watch "news nation" every day 2:00 p.m. eastern time. "the cycle" is up next. into their work, their name on the door, and their heart into their community. small business saturday is a day to show our support. a day to shop at stores owned by our friends and neighbors. and do our part for the businesses that do so much for us. on november 24th, let's get out and shop small. challenge the need for such heavy measures with olay. regenerist micro-sculpting serum for firmer skin in 5 days. pretty heavy lifting for such a lig
reagan was with the blowing up of the u.s. marines in beirut. >> this administration continues to put out things that are just not quite true. >> smear, character assassination, judgment before all the facts are in. >> we're getting that video in. house and senate committees will both hearings tomorrow as we reported a few minutes ago. former cia director david petraeus is expected to testify. you see some of the tone and tenor of what will perhaps happen behind closed doors...
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Nov 14, 2012
11/12
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reagan on social security reform we can add years of solvency and to medicare and do it and increase benefits like with obama care and we need both sides to be willing. i know the democrats are willing. president obama's willing to sit down at the table. what we don't need to do i can tell you is cut benefits. that's something that i don't think is the first thing that should be put forward. we have a lot of opportunity to continue to make reforms in medicare, make sure we build in more efficiencies to the program so we can add the years of solvency. >> what about eligibility age change? >> well, eligibility age change would fall in the realm of benefit cuts. we need to focus like i said first on making sure we build in more efficiencies to the program. we have been able to from obama care make sure that with that $716 billion in savings plowed in to waste, fraud and abuse -- fighting waste, fraud and abuse we have collected more than $10 billion in fraudulent medicare payments and we can make more progress in that area, as well. >> thank you so much. i greatly appreciate you joining
reagan on social security reform we can add years of solvency and to medicare and do it and increase benefits like with obama care and we need both sides to be willing. i know the democrats are willing. president obama's willing to sit down at the table. what we don't need to do i can tell you is cut benefits. that's something that i don't think is the first thing that should be put forward. we have a lot of opportunity to continue to make reforms in medicare, make sure we build in more...
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Nov 15, 2012
11/12
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KRCB
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i thought ronald reagan had a fairly successful second term and bill clinton's was marred by his own personal issues. second trerms difficult. w. had a dficult time. one of the things i think they underestimate at the white house and the treasury is the idea of doing tax reform. when you both were probably in preschool, i was covering the '85, '86, tax reform act, and to call it heavy lifting is an understatement. it took a savvy, smart treasury secretary, jim baker, working with capitol hill and a supportive president, and democrats and republicans. i don't see any of those ingredients today to do tax reform in 2013, 2014. >> especially ifhe esident going to have a new treasury secretary. itim geithner, this has sort of been his-- tim geithner wanted to be behind tax reform, wanted to be the force behind corporate tax reform. that might speak to tim geithner staying on a little long fer they think they can get something done in the first six months. >> why is anything different now? why is anything different in the second term? >> good point. >> i'll turn the hosting to you. >> mart
i thought ronald reagan had a fairly successful second term and bill clinton's was marred by his own personal issues. second trerms difficult. w. had a dficult time. one of the things i think they underestimate at the white house and the treasury is the idea of doing tax reform. when you both were probably in preschool, i was covering the '85, '86, tax reform act, and to call it heavy lifting is an understatement. it took a savvy, smart treasury secretary, jim baker, working with capitol hill...
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Nov 16, 2012
11/12
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reagan was with the blowing up of the u.s. marine in beirut. >> shep: this just one of several hearings that were underway today. each focused on what went wrong in benghazi. katherine herrage live. it's my understanding that within the hour, we've learned some members of congress viewed a video of that attack happening in benghazi. >> the intelligence community put together a half hour video, composite from multiple video sources that shows the minutes before the attack, the militants overrunning the consulate, and the second wave of mortars that struck the c.i.a. annex. >> i mean, it's just so obvious to be so obvious to any inexperienced individual that this was purely a terrorist attack. >> fox news has told the c.i.a. is launching a preliminary investigation into the former director's conduct. the issue is whether any c.i.a. resources were used to facilitate the alleged affair between petraeus and his biographer, paula broadwell. the f.b.i. is already concluded that the former director was not the source of the classified
reagan was with the blowing up of the u.s. marine in beirut. >> shep: this just one of several hearings that were underway today. each focused on what went wrong in benghazi. katherine herrage live. it's my understanding that within the hour, we've learned some members of congress viewed a video of that attack happening in benghazi. >> the intelligence community put together a half hour video, composite from multiple video sources that shows the minutes before the attack, the...
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Nov 19, 2012
11/12
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european conservatives that have spoken and there's many people that have returned on the principles of ronald reagan and thatcher and president and the czech republic and the pro free enterprise and sovereignty simply to fight back against the european within the elements of central and eastern europe to push back so it is an array of hope you didn't use the word insidious. >> i'm waiting for you to bring about. >> the example of why it won't work is the european union. >> you can organize the countries in the same continent that are supposed to be the same civilization how are you going to reconcile the this civilizations that it shouldn't stand. and it gets to double down now. now we need them in charge of all of the banks. in charge of all economic policy all budget policies. this is what the leaders are saying. so even though it doesn't work and doesn't -- the soviet union didn't work from 1917 to 1971. >> would you comment on any connections that you see between the groups that appear to have less concern about protecting the national borders and issues of sovereignty clacks >> i'm not q
european conservatives that have spoken and there's many people that have returned on the principles of ronald reagan and thatcher and president and the czech republic and the pro free enterprise and sovereignty simply to fight back against the european within the elements of central and eastern europe to push back so it is an array of hope you didn't use the word insidious. >> i'm waiting for you to bring about. >> the example of why it won't work is the european union. >>...
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Nov 17, 2012
11/12
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CNNW
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ronald reagan's second term -- >> a few months ago, i told the american people i did not trade arms for hostages. my heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not. >> reporter: the iran contra affair. bill clinton -- >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman. >> reporter: impeached after the lewinsky mess. and george w. bush, well, there was the valerie plame spygate scandal, not to mentioning the handling of hurricane katrina. that's trouble for roughly 100% of re-elected presidents since 1972. yes, it's enough to give you second thoughts about that second term. so is there anything the obama team can do to prevent this? now, as bill clinton might say. >> it depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is. >> reporter: the fact is, if there is going to be a second-term scandal, its seeds were probably sewn in the first term. the watergate break-in, nixon's first term. the actual iran contra deal, reagan's first term. bill clinton's liaison with lewinsky, first term. the actual plame leaks, first term. so if the obama tea
ronald reagan's second term -- >> a few months ago, i told the american people i did not trade arms for hostages. my heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not. >> reporter: the iran contra affair. bill clinton -- >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman. >> reporter: impeached after the lewinsky mess. and george w. bush, well, there was the valerie plame spygate scandal, not to mentioning the handling...